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July 28 2009 @ 05:26 pm
Freedom of speech lives! Andy Rocks!  
And yes I know many of you won't agree....

Andy Rooney said on '60 Minutes' a few weeks back:

I don't think being a minority makes you a victim of anything except numbers. The only things I can think of that are truly discriminatory are things like the United Negro College Fund, Jet Magazine, Black Entertainment Television, and Miss Black America. Try to have things like the United Caucasian College Fund, Cloud Magazine, White Entertainment Television, or Miss White America; and see what happens...Jesse Jackson will be knocking down your door.

Guns do not make you a killer. I think killing makes you a killer. You can kill someone with a baseball bat or a car, but no one is trying to ban you from driving to the ball game.

I believe they are called the Boy Scouts for a reason, which is why there are no girls allowed. Girls belong in the Girl Scouts! ARE YOU LISTENING, MARTHA BURKE?

I think that if you feel homosexuality is wrong, it is not a phobia, it is an opinion. I have the right 'NOT' to be tolerant of others because they are different, weird, or tick me off.

When 70% of the people who get arrested are black, in cities where 70% of the population is black, that is not racial profiling; it is the Law of Probability..

I believe that if you are selling me a milkshake, a pack of cigarettes, a newspaper or a hotel room, you must do it in English! As a matter of fact, if you want to be an American citizen, you should have to speak English!  My father and grandfather didn't die in vain so you can leave the countries you were born in to come over and disrespect ours.


I think the police should have every right to shoot you if you threaten them after they tell you to stop. If you can't understand the word 'freeze' or 'stop' in English, see the above lines.

I don't think just because you were not born in this country, you are qualified for any special loan programs, government sponsored bank loans or tax breaks, etc., so you can open a hotel, coffee shop, trinket store, or any other business. We did not go to the aid of certain foreign countries and risk our lives in wars to defend their freedoms, so that decades later they could come over here and tell us our constitution is a living document; and open to their interpretations.

I don't hate the rich; I don't pity the poor. I know pro wrestling is fake, but so are movies and television. That doesn't stop you from watching them. I think Bill Gates has every right to keep every penny he made and continue to make more.. If it ticks you off, go and invent the next operating system that's better, and put your name on the building.

It doesn't take a whole village to raise a child right, but it does take a parent to stand up to the kid and smack their little behinds when necessary, and say 'NO!'

I think tattoos and piercing are fine if you want them, but please don't pretend they are a political statement. And, please, stay home until that new lip ring heals. I don't want to look at your ugly infected mouth as you serve me French fries!

I am sick of 'Political Correctness.' I know a lot of black people, and not a single one of them was born in Africa ; so how can they be 'African-Americans'? Besides, Africa is a continent. I don't go around saying I am a European-American because my great, great, great, great, great, great grandfather was from Europe. I am proud to be from America and nowhere else.

And if you don't like my point of view, tough ...

I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG, OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA , AND TO THE REPUBLIC, FOR WHICH IT STANDS, ONE NATION UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE, WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL!

I was asked to send this on if I agree or delete if I don't. It is said that 86% of Americans believe in God. Therefore I have a very hard time understanding why there is such a problem in having 'In God We Trust' on our money and having 'God' in the Pledge of Allegiance. Why don't we just tell the 14% to BE QUIET!!!

AMEN! (that was my addition.)

Copy and paste to your LJ if you agree, if you don't, that's your right too :) Embrace your beliefs and opinions even if others judge you harshly!

Heck my great grandfather only got into America because he could speak English fluently.

TAGGED:
 
 
 
tracyj23: BSG - Bright shiny futurestracyj23 on July 29th, 2009 12:50 am (UTC)
I do agree with most of it, just not the part about the right to not be tolerant. Although I disagree with the term "tolerant" as it means to put up with something hateful or abhorrent. People should be respectful of all others. You want them to respect you even when their ways of life and beliefs are different, you have to respect them when they're different from you. I believe that is the Golden Rule.

Otherwise I completely agree. I think one of the things that pisses me off the most about Canada is that we're a bilingual country. Not that I mind THAT, but we outside of Quebec are all FORCED to learn french - it's mandatory in our schools from Kindergarten up - and all signs are in English and French, yet Quebec thinks they're different and "special" so they don't have to deal in English. They fine people who put up English signs in certain cities and towns. If they want US to learn their language and use it, they'd better be ready to learn ours and use it as well.

I think Bill Gates has every right to keep every penny he made and continue to make more.. If it ticks you off, go and invent the next operating system that's better, and put your name on the building.

This is amusing since Bill Gates didn't even invent the operating system that made him millions. He was just a two-bit hack developer in his basement and he BOUGHT it from someone else. All he's good at is marketing - he hasn't got a hot clue about computers!
Jill aka Jo: Misc: Sneakersireesanwar on July 29th, 2009 06:06 pm (UTC)
See we've gotten into this discussion before. While I'm not sure tolerant was the word he should have used, I don't think I have to go along with anything I don't believe in. So I do believe I have that right.

No, he didn't make the Operating System he just had the smarts to latch onto something when it was available. He made his money and people demanding he give it up is wrong. The man gives tons to charity and runs special schools. He does his part so I do think it wrong that people attack him just because he has money.

It does seem wrong that learning French is forced upon you up there. But here it is required in High School that we learn a second language and I think they should start earlier than that. My niece started Latin in 5th grade and she took to it when she doesn't take to a lot of things and it has really helped her learning.
tracyj23tracyj23 on July 29th, 2009 06:27 pm (UTC)
I' not sure "go along with" is what I mean either. I know you're opposed to certain things, homosexuality for example, because of the religion you believe in, but others who don't believe in the same religion and who do approve of that lifestyle have just as much right to live it and not be harassed as you do to not believe in it. No one is forcing you to take part - I believe we all need to respect each other's rights to live as we choose, even if those choices go against what we personally believe in. Who's to say we're right? I know, God, but there is so much stuff in the Bible that is interpreted the way people WANT to interpret it in order to leave others out and treat them badly. I think we should all live as good a lifestyle as we can, trying not to hurt other people, and do unto others as you'd have them do unto you.

I think you're mistaking what I said about Bill Gates - I'm not opposed to what he did at all, just laughing at the fact that people think he's such a genius but he's not really. I have no issue with him being a good marketing person and making lots of money. You work hard, you become wealthy. That's how it works. Of course I despise his operating systems because they're crap, but that's different. He certainly has the right to make them and sell them and people shouldn't try to take that right away. Much of what is sold in North America is garbage. Hello Wal-mart.

I dont' have issue with learning French. I don't have issue with anyone learning another language and in fact I do approve the fact that my kids are learning it from kindergarten all the way through. What I DON'T approve is that Quebec, while it's part of the same country, doesn't respect those rights in return. It would be like say, Texas deciding that Chinese should be the second language in the USA and that everyone should have to learn it, but then decide that they didn't want to use English anymore. I guess I'm agreeing with Andy in that, you're in an English speaking country - SPEAK ENGLISH DAMMIT. That doesn't mean you don't keep up with the language from whatever country you came from and throw away all of your traditions, but when in Rome do as the Romans do. The USA and Canada are English speaking countries. Everyone should be able to communicate in English here.
Jill aka Jo: Dumb: Highlander Dohsireesanwar on July 29th, 2009 08:45 pm (UTC)
Here is where people really don't understand me. And I know people disagree with the voting thing when it comes to such things as homosexuality.

If they ask us to vote I will go with my beliefs. That was where that marriage thing came in. And while I disagree with the lifestyle and won't say differently, I'm not going to hate someone or sit there and tell them they shouldn't be doing it. If they ask I will tell the truth but it is my right to believe how I want.

So I can be respectful without agreeing.

Who's to say we're right? I know, God, but there is so much stuff in the Bible that is interpreted the way people WANT to interpret it in order to leave others out and treat them badly. I think we should all live as good a lifestyle as we can, trying not to hurt other people, and do unto others as you'd have them do unto you.
The issue is people "interpret" rather than read what is plain as day because something God gives us examples and sometimes he just says it.

You are right about doing unto others... of course, if someone else disagree with how I live my life then they have that right and they can tell me once and leave it at that. I don't have to agree with them.

I actually wasn't mistaking what you said so I'm sorry if it seemed like I was ranting at you. I was venting about people who get all uppity at him.

Also, Wal-mart for the most part is bad. I only buy products you can get anywhere from them because they are slightly cheaper like shampoo and cleaner.

Oh wait Quebec only does French? They don't learn English do they. Okay that is wrong. But I also think that putting kids in spanish speaking classes here is wrong when kindergarten is the best time for them to learn English. Sure continue their spanish. Maybe even do a bilingual class... heck if they did that those Spanish speaking kids would be ahead of the curve.
tracyj23tracyj23 on July 30th, 2009 01:41 pm (UTC)
And while I disagree with the lifestyle and won't say differently, I'm not going to hate someone or sit there and tell them they shouldn't be doing it. If they ask I will tell the truth but it is my right to believe how I want.

Absolutely. I totally agree - you are free to believe what you want and speak your mind. What I don't agree with is the voting. I disagree with the fact that your state requires referenda on everything. You have the right to believe that a homosexual life is wrong (for example) but you DON'T have the right to tell them they can't live it. You shouldn't be allowed to vote on that. Everyone should be free to live their lives the way they choose.

if someone else disagree with how I live my life then they have that right and they can tell me once and leave it at that. I don't have to agree with them.

This is where you're being hypocritical and I have issue with that. What if a referendum came up that said people in California weren't allowed to use the internet anymore? Or go to Church? What if so many people voted for it those things that they passed? You wouldn't be allowed the freedoms that you take for granted now. How would that make you feel? You're doing exactly that to others and it's not right.

People who live a different lifestyle than you shouldn't be punished because people like YOU don't agree with it. It's prejudice and it's unfair, plain and simple. Everyone has the right to live as they choose in a free country, and if you believe they're living wrong and will go to hell, that's your belief. It's their choice to do it, not yours.

And as far as government and politics goes (as per your other post), the referendum law is what caused the problem. Gee, politicians put a question out there for referendum - "should we raise taxes?" Of course people are going to say no. Who wants to pay more taxes? But government NEEDS money from somewhere in order to function. Where are they supposed to get it from? Robbing banks in Canada? Taxes need to be paid in order for your city services to exist. Water and sewer, garbage collection, road repairs, libraries, transit ... it all costs money. You might have noticed the economy went down the toilet last year and the government is no different. They have no money either, so to have all of their citizens cough up just a little more helps pay for the things you would complain about if you didn't have them. What they're doing isn't illegal, the whole referendum system is and should be banished. Read up on some history - that's why the whole system of representative democracy came into being, because things don't get done when every single person gets to vote.

Jill aka Jo: FF: This Landsireesanwar on July 30th, 2009 07:34 pm (UTC)
I'm not even sure why it went to a vote but it did and that is where I believe if it is in the voting situation and you are asked to vote then vote with what you believe.

I'm not going to debate whether or not the voting should be allowed. What I will say is they brought it forth to be voted on and everyone has the right to go with their beliefs and no one should be allowed to ask them to do differently. You say that about the homosexuals but what about the rest of the people? They have the same right to vote the way they choose.

This is where you're being hypocritical
How am I being hypocritical? I just said that if someone asked me or I offered the opinion on their lifestyle they don't have to agree and the same goes for me. It would be hypocritical of me to say I don't agree with the lifestyle but I'll vote for them.

Now, talking about voting it isn't one on one. They want us all to say what we think marriage is and we have the right to that opinion.

When they pass stupid laws, and they do, I go along with them but I would definitely fight arbitrary ones because again we have that right.

Actually, if the government banned church I would break the law. The law isn't above God so that's a no brainer for me.

Actually for me the internet and homosexuality are so different that it doesn't compare but I take your meaning. It really depends on what they plan on passing. But you can't ask people to vote and then say you are horrible for going with your beliefs. That is hypocritical.

It isn't prejudice to disagree. It is your right to disagree. And they haven't stopped living their lives the way they want too. They just haven't been defined legally as married.

They weren't told they couldn't get married (have ceremonies) it just wasn't recognized as legal to the government.

It is their choice to do that but again when it is brought to a vote they can't expect people to go against what they believe. It is the same as telling people who believe in pro-choice to vote against abortion because it is the right thing to do. I mean then I'm telling them to go against their beliefs and it is WRONG. They maybe wrong in my eyes but I'm not going to tell them they have to agree with me in their voting.

As for the the other post I made what gets me is that they are even able to put into action anything that is illegal. Yes, the government needs money but they are taking plenty and spending it on anything they want.

Hell, LA fit the bill for Michael Jackson's procession or some such. Spent millions and then asked for money for their city. Why is government allows to spend their money on stupid stuff like that?

Why to politicians get raises when we can't afford it? Why do they put up new roads, that aren't needed and cost millions but they have no money?

Taxes aren't a good thing but I understand the reasoning behind some of them. They're taking in billions and it isn't enough because they are spending more than they are making and it is because of all the crap they allow and all the stupid stuff they do. If this country and state were run more like a business it would work better.

There are things like welfare and aid that piss me off. My Aunt is disabled and can't work but she functions and she gets nothing because they decided she should just work even though doctor's tell her it could make it so much worse as to cripple her.

But on the flip side someone like my nieces ex-stepmother and her girlfriend are mooching off the government and collecting tons of unemployment help because they have children and they don't work. Why don't they work? Because they make more sitting on their butts. There are people like that all over and instead of pulling their benefits they just shove money at them.

Reform some of that stuff and we'd be saving money.

And what they are doing is illegal. It is going against another law that is in place. If we took money from the local government because we needed it... stealing. What is it called when they do it? SAME THING!
tracyj23tracyj23 on July 30th, 2009 10:01 pm (UTC)
For whatever reason, your post on faith isn't showing up on my friends page, and you've disabled comments so I'm going to respond here. (As it's appropos here anyway.)

I completely agree with everything you've said except the death penalty. People can argue that one too but I don't care to.

What I do have a problem with is this:
believe that while I have the right to believe as I do, also do other of the world

You say that but you don't act it. If everyone is free to believe as they wish, they should live as they wish and not have other people decide what they can and can't do. You are only responsible for your own life - you can witness to others but it's not your judgment call to decide what people can or can't do with their lives. When you vote to limit people's right to whatever life they want to lead, you're taking away their rights. You may not be "hating other people for their beliefs" by your words but your actions show them that you do. That's where I have issue with what you stand for. I don't argue your right to feel and believe whatever you want nor to witness to others by speaking your beliefs. I just have a problem with people who FORCE their views on others which is what voting to curb people's rights does.
Jill aka Jo: Misc: Plantsireesanwar on July 30th, 2009 10:45 pm (UTC)
I knew you would notice that. I've had it up for a while and it isn't supposed to be coming up in the now. It is supposed to be coming up when I posted it but it got all screwed up so I had to redo it.

The only reason I disabled comments is because I knew that I would get people arguing or bashing. Also, if they really want to talk about it they will find a place to comment to me like you.

You say that but you don't act it.

I don't agree but you knew that right? And we can go in this huge circle all you want.

you can witness to others but it's not your judgment call to decide what people can or can't do with their lives

And yet you've decided I should go against my beliefs. I can vote and vote for my beliefs to say I shouldn't and I should go with the it and just say yes is to FORCE their beliefs on me. Two way street here.

And I actually do act it no matter what you think because as I've said before... I know people who are gay and they no I don't agree but that doesn't me we have to agree on it. Also the same goes for tattoos.

I don't believe people should get them. But my best friend in all the world has one and she asked me and I said no... I don't agree with getting on and I won't, but it was her call. Her life to do with as she sees fit so she got one... same goes with a gay person being in a gay relationship. It is their life but it if came to a vote I WILL go with my beliefs. To ask me to do otherwise is to ask me to chuck my beliefs for yours and that is the biggest moral issue were are dealing with in this discussion.
(Deleted comment)
Jill aka Jo: Misc: Bootssireesanwar on July 31st, 2009 06:23 pm (UTC)
Tis okay. I'm sure the convo won't die.

I see why you think this is hypocritical but it being a hypocrite means doing the opposite of what you believe. They are doing what they believe and I am acting on my own beliefs. I am not going against my belief that others have the right to believe how they want because I'm not making them change their beliefs and they are still voting how they want and I'm not telling them to go against their beliefs. You are telling me to consider their beliefs and vote with them. That isn't even how voting works. You are to vote with your beliefs same as when you vote for a person. You vote for the person YOU believe will be best suited.

Now in regard to disagreeing with someone. I do have that right but to tell me that I should disregard what I believe to conform to what others believe is to ask me to go against my religion.

I'm not going to tell the gay community to vote against their beliefs so why should they ask it of me? It doesn't matter the topic or the thing we are voting on. You don't ask another person to go against their beliefs to conform to others. That would be the same as forcing people to lie for someone else's gain. It is wrong.
tracyj23tracyj23 on August 1st, 2009 02:43 pm (UTC)
I know we can keep arguing this forever and I don't want to, but there's one thing from your comments here that I want to point out.

And yet you've decided I should go against my beliefs

I have not asked you to go against your beliefs at all. Did I suggest you should become a lesbian? No. I merely said that for you to vote that gay marriage is wrong.

To ask me to do otherwise is to ask me to chuck my beliefs for yours and that is the biggest moral issue were are dealing with in this discussion.ing how someone else should live their lives.

I'm not asking you to change your moral values at all. What I'm asking is that you consider this.

For you to abstain from voting in order to allow others the same freedom to live their lives the way they see fit as you do. If you were to vote yes or to not vote at all would that mean you'd have to give up your lifestyle and become gay? NO, of course not. But for you to vote yes means they have to give up their lifestyle and live yours. In no way does it change your life to be tolerant of other people and allow them freedom to live. And it goes what you said to turple purtle about your country being founded on freedom for ALL MEN. Voting to curb other people's rights is un-American.

Also, think of it this way. "Gay people should not be allowed to be married because ... xyz ... " Change that to "Black people should not be allowed to be married because ... xyz ... " or "Latin American people should not be allowed to ... xyz ... ". It's discrimination, plain and simple and it's wrong.

I'm not asking you to change your views or morals at all. To be honest, I agree with you - I don't believe in the gay lifestyle and I don't think that gay partners should be called "being married" because I believe that marriage is between a man and a woman and that there should be the ability to procreate. But I won't stop other people from doing it just because *I* think it's wrong. That would make me as much of a sinner as they. "Do not judge, lest ye be judged." I let God do the judging and live and let live.

Edited at 2009-08-01 02:44 pm (UTC)
Jill aka Jo: FF: Serenity Shipsireesanwar on August 3rd, 2009 08:37 pm (UTC)
Also, think of it this way. "Gay people should not be allowed to be married because ... xyz ... " Change that to "Black people should not be allowed to be married because ... xyz ... " or "Latin American people should not be allowed to ... xyz ... ". It's discrimination, plain and simple and it's wrong.

The only problem with this agreement (to me) is that God never says that being any race is wrong. So it isn't the same to me at all.

But I won't stop other people from doing it just because *I* think it's wrong. That would make me as much of a sinner as they. "Do not judge, lest ye be judged." I let God do the judging and live and let live.

The passage you quote has to do with hypocritical judgment. So if I were saying gay marriage is evil and blah blah blah but went into my home and had a gay relationship then that would apply to me. It would be saying how can you judge when you are guilty of the same sin.

It isn't not a sin (in my book) to vote with what God tells us are wrong and against him. In fact, I believe God says to do or accept what is not of him is, in fact, a sin. Which is where I'm coming from.

I know we won't agree and I'm okay with that. Because I know that you are good person. Even with our disagreements you are still one of my favorite people to hear from and I'm okay with us disagreeing, debating and whatever else, but these discussions do get long and drawn out.
(Deleted comment)
Jill aka Jo: Misc: Bootssireesanwar on July 31st, 2009 06:40 pm (UTC)
Believe me I see your point but for me it comes do to the fact that people out there seem to think just because you think something is right doesn't mean everyone does. It doesn't mean everyone has to conform.

Pretty much what I said it the last comment.

I can't and won't go against my religion even if the government wants me too. If they said I had to renounce God or die. I would die. Because I believe and for me that means it encompasses everything. Your actions should reflect your beliefs even if it mean other people believe your wrong or hate you for it.
(Deleted comment)
Jill aka Jo: Misc: Sneakersireesanwar on August 1st, 2009 12:44 am (UTC)
I don't think you are seeing my point and I only think that is just because we don't believe the same thing.

I'm also sorry if you find me fanatical when I'm trying to stick to what I believe. I don't just leave my religion at the door. It is with me in whatever I do. Because I do believe God outlines in the Bible what he expects from us and since that is my belief I apply it to my life not just my home life.

I'm going to assume you won't associate with me again as it rather sounds like that towards the end and I'm sorry if that is the case.
(Deleted comment)
Jill aka Josireesanwar on August 3rd, 2009 05:19 pm (UTC)
Well, I'm very glad because I would hate to lose a LJ buddy, especially one that appreciates Outlander.

Hey, I respect where you are coming from and we can just agree to disagree.

I too enjoy talking these things out. And you are welcome for the discussion.
tracyj23tracyj23 on August 1st, 2009 03:32 pm (UTC)
just because you think something is right doesn't mean everyone does. It doesn't mean everyone has to conform.

No one is forcing you to conform to anything. Your life isn't being infringed in any way by gay people being married is it? Is it stopping you from going to church? From working? From having friends? No.

You don't have to think it's right, but voting to stop other people from living their lives is wrong, no matter what the issue.

And I do agree with daybythelake. You ARE fanatical about your beliefs and that's a dangerous thing, because you ONLY see your own point of view and force it on others in the name of freedom. True freedom and democracy is allowing all peoples to live free without others constraining them. Christian fundamentalism, which is what you live, is no different than Jewish fundamentalism and Islamic fundamentalism - it's all about one group of people forcing others to live what THEY believe, against their will. It's a slippery slope between saying "I'm free to believe what I want" and hurting other people and in fact killing other people who don't agree with you. And you're sliding down it. Fast.
Jill aka Jo: Facepalm: Kermitsireesanwar on August 3rd, 2009 08:45 pm (UTC)
I'm not the ONLY one who agrees. If that were true or even close then the bill would have passed.

Honey, I'm not anywhere close to a slippery slope. I know you see it that way but I would never even go there because again, God says in the Bible that it is wrong. Just because I don't believe their lifestyle is wrong and I won't vote for it doesn't mean I would ever hurt someone who is gay or even leave them bleeding on the side of a road. I know God would not want that. But I don't believe he would want me to vote for something he says is a sin. That is where loving the sinner and hating the sin comes in.

The difference between what I believe and a Islamic Fundamentalist is that I go with God's Word and they add there man made views to something close to His Word.
tracyj23tracyj23 on August 7th, 2009 01:35 pm (UTC)
The difference between what I believe and a Islamic Fundamentalist is that I go with God's Word and they add there man made views to something close to His Word.

The thing is they DO go with the word of their God. Their Bible states that they should be willing to die (or kill) for their beliefs so they do. I'm just saying all religions are very similar - we may all believe in different gods but we follow what our god and our religion tells us to do without question and that causes us to fight one another and sometimes kill. Christianity is full of examples of people who were so dead set on THEIR religion being the right one that they pushed everyone else out of their own beliefs and MADE them believe in our God or killed them if they refused to. It's a dangerous thing, following religion sometimes. Not that I believe that doing God's word is wrong, just that it's open to more liberal interpretation and that the old testament is meant to be a lesson on how things USED to be, not how they're supposed to be now. That's why we have the new testament - Jesus taught us all of that was wrong and that we were supposed to love and help all peoples, regardless of who they are.

I know YOU wouldn't hurt anyone because you're a good person but many other people who believe the same way you do use religion as an excuse for violence against people they don't like or for whom they don't approve. I'm just saying, make sure you're being careful in whom you're allying yourself with.
turple_purtleturple_purtle on July 29th, 2009 12:52 pm (UTC)

I agree with most of it too; except the "not being tolerant" part and for me to "be quiet". Why the hell should I be quiet if I don't want to? I'm an atheist, I don't say "Oh my God" or use the term "God" very much unless it's some sort of discussion; when I say the Pledge, I substitute "God" with "all". I, personally, don't think the phrase needs to be on our money; it's a fact of life and I deal with it, just like the fact I have to work a job. But if my opinion is asked I will give it... if we are afforded the right of free speech, I sure as hell don't have to be quiet.
Jill aka Jo: Icon of the Monthsireesanwar on July 29th, 2009 06:16 pm (UTC)
Yeah like I said I'm not sure I like how he stated that... I think it should have been more along the lines that I have the right to disagree but not hate people because disagreeing with someone's life style or beliefs doesn't mean you hate them or should.

Also with the God thing. Even if I didn't believe in God I have an issue with changing things this country was created on. Our Pledge of Alligence was written back in 1892 for a magazine to celebrate Columbus Day and it is someone's writing. I think it wrong to change our history like that.

Also, In God We Trust has been our national motto since 1864 and that is part of our history. No one says you have to believe but I think respect for our history is a good thing.

One Nation Under all... Under all what? People? So we are under others? Our Pledge does suggest we are under the rule of God but also that we are under no man or other nation. At least to me.

It is true you don't have to "be quiet" but when the majority of our country says leave it we should just respect that.

Edited at 2009-07-29 06:17 pm (UTC)
turple_purtleturple_purtle on July 29th, 2009 06:59 pm (UTC)

Don't get me wrong, I do respect our history and our majority; whether it's our motto or not, doesn't mean we all trust in a God.

Under "all" of "us", I suppose. Or under the sky and clouds. No God runs this country...so I will not use God in the Pledge. It's just not my belief. Our country was founded on liberty and freedom.

I respect the majority says leave things be, which is why I'm not out picketing or something and still earning and using money. LOL If I'm given the choice to vote on it, however, my vote would be clear.
Jill aka Jo: SPN: I'll man the flashlightsireesanwar on July 29th, 2009 07:07 pm (UTC)
I'd rather say something spiritual in any regard than all of us... it just doesn't flow but I also wouldn't change the writers words.

Well, our country was founded on liberty and freedom but a lot of it was originally to get away from the fight in Europe between the different types of "Christianity" (which to me is Catholic, Protestant etc). Of course, looking back on our history they didn't do a good job of it did they.

Ah well. We do have the right to vote. I do like that when we are given the opportunity.